Friends, Sanguinites, Countrymen (and women) lend me your ears...
What I’m getting at with my last post is that everything about the Chronicle promotes a sense of unity. I tried testing the waters when I first joined you guys, Felicia had just been taken by Newhouse and we were planning an assault. My response to the situation was to focus on Newhouse, but the overwhelming opinion was that we save Felicia no matter what, she’s the avatar of the lady, she’s the fairest and best Baron we could have.
As I have heard since then, this behaviour is inherently unvampiric. There was so no selfishness, we were even willing to put aside the imminent danger of Newhouse if it meant saving a Baron who we should theoretically be conniving against to wrest power from, and we did all of this without the promise of a favor. I even commented IC how bold it was for the Baron to give out favors after the fact since none had been promised.
Parliament is all about protecting the Tenants and protecting Branton, the Tenants make internal conflict difficult. To be involved in the political game you have to join a guild and be part of Crucible/Parliament and thus you also have to protect the very thing which is preventing internal conflict. If you don’t like those aspects of town then your vamp either dies or leaves town, it’s a self selecting feedback loop.
I’m also not saying that this is a problem, a great game is going along, it just needs strong external threats to foil the society that has been created (Newhouse, the Gio, the Sabbat, the 2I).
Scarecrow last edited by
The Crucible is different, that’s for sure. It’s a new idea, at least for Anarchs, I guess. But unvampiric?
Isn’t this the sort of shit your Blood’s been hollering about? That’s what Felicia said when she proposed it - and that someone finally listened. Your fellow Rabble took that message to heart and jumped full on board.
The problem ain’t that it’s unvampiric, but that it’s a structure without a purpose. I don’t want to say more now, as I’ve just started a discussion on this, but a good chance it’ll come up tonight. And, of course, you or anyone else could start submitting ideas for purpose. Through the regular channels of course.
I’d say the more relevant issue is a lack of external purpose. Without an outlet, without a purpose to pursue, yeah, it can start stagnating in on itself. But isn’t that always the case?
This is OOC
@knightfox you aren’t entirely wrong. There is a bit of nuance to it, one that I haven’t been seeing going on lately that much but there is a little bit of conflict going on between individuals/groups. Typically it goes on in the background and isn’t played out in the open until it reaches the boiling point. For example, there was a dispute between the Nosferatu and the Toreador that was simmering for a few months with small shots taken at each other until it boiled up and Aidan killed Tucker (this is all in The Book so I can talk about it!). Now this doesn’t always have to end in character death, there are a lot of things one or a group of people can do to pull things down for someone else. Afte all, your Beast revels in the suffering of others and just outright killing them is only a quick victory and satisfies the Beast for only a small amount of time. Suffering can be done over millenia!
It’s the two-faced nature of the vampire. Smile and dangle the flashy thing over here so they don’t see the bear trap you set over there. And overall I feel the game could use more of that.
Scarecrow last edited by
Sorry about the IC voice, but that’s also pretty much the message I’d say OOC. To hear a Brujah flummoxed by the Crucible is like seeing a dog that finally catches the car it’s chasing. “Ummmm…now what??” And I’m not criticizing you. It’s new. I haven’t seen or heard of this in the game. That kinda makes it fun, to me.
I think there are other reasons coteries are awkward. We’re in a bit too big of a sand-box, maybe. It’d be easy to form coteries with our limited numbers such that they don’t ever bump into each other. I think there are ways for the STs (or players) to address that.
@scarecrow said in Friends, Sanguinites, Countrymen (and women) lend me your ears...:
It’d be easy to form coteries with our limited numbers such that they don’t ever bump into each other. I think there are ways for the STs (or players) to address that.
Exactly what I was angling at Hector
Another aspect of it is that there haven’t been the large overwhelming territory grabs to force characters to interact in a more conflict style that is seen in something like Bloodlines 1.
I totally understand where you’re coming from, so don’t think I’m being dismissive. One way to look at it is war makes for strange bedfellows. In terms of the guilds their only purpose is to help crucible stop outside attacks. They have absolutely no involvement in internal politics. We may need to change the tenets, and if so I’m more than happy to have that discussion, but those were set up by the members. So we can certainly consider and look at doing that. In terms of politics, intrigue and conflict… well, I’m thinking having different things pulling you in different ways helps that. On the one hand you are a member of X guild, and also in Y and maybe even Z coterie. Y coterie mate is in W guild and therefore it gives the potential for internal strife. You also have clans to throw into the mix too. So if we angle it right then the competing needs can mean you aren’t sure which is the best way to go sometimes. Also as Brain said, it isn’t just about death. It’s about doing things that may hinder someone else’s goals whilst supporting your own.
Maybe the balance isn’t right and we’re always open to ideas on what might work better. So this is in no way a slapdown, but tone wise, one thing we do need help to do is have less overall collaboration and more competition, whilst coming together for outside threats. Take the Brujah as an example. Their motto could be: Nobody beats my brother but me. Internally they can fight and argue, but if an outside comes they can close ranks sharpish. Add into that competing coteries and tensions can bubble up. That’s the thinking anyway. So anything we can do to get that diversity is what we want to achieve.
well, I’m thinking having different things pulling you in different ways helps that. On the one hand you are a member of X guild, and also in Y and maybe even Z coterie.
This may just be a factor of not enough time has passed IC to establish some of these things and get everyone deeply entrenched and pulled multiple ways. This is definitely the case for many new characters. The lack of conflict will likely resolve itself as long as things like Coteries are encouraged IC and OOC as people get their characters more established. At the end of the day a lot of us are probably just waiting for the XP to form some things like that.
I could always be misinterpreting the tenants, that is ENTIRELY possible. They likely mean different things for different characters.