Boons: Going Rates questions

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Boons: Going Rates questions

Postby Jamestoo » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:28 am

Could you estimage the costs of these for me? Obviously everything depends on circumstances, but like a guideline would be appreciated.

1. Getting praised by Harpy, Elder, or Prince. This was mentioned in the Guide as a thing they can pay with, but is thus Trivial, Minor, or Major?

2. Same but reversed. If I ask a Harpy or Prince to disparagraph some one, what would the Boon cost be?
(Assuming they weren't just like, "Actually, I'mma disparage the fuck outta you just for askin me that").

3. Being guided safely by Nosferatu through the sewers because you feel like travelling that way today. Trivial? Minor? What about being guided safely through the sewers by a Nosferatu because you had to run away and escape a big danger (maybe Lupines were chasing you)? Life (because it saves your life)? Or still Trivial/Minor because it requires little effort?

4. That last one gets to the,heart of an ambiguity I sense: Does the boon cost measure the effort/cost of the seller, or does it measure the benefit to the buyer?. Or is *that* distinction based on status? Like is it that "Whether you measure the effort of the seller or the benefit to the buyer is determined by status, so that the boon cost works in the favor of the elder and against the neonate?"
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Re: Boons: Going Rates questions

Postby Isaac » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:16 pm

Note before beginning, this is from a players perspective of course. I am not an ST, Assistant, or Watchman.

1. Getting praised by a Harpy, Elder, or Prince is usually going to be for something done in service to the city or Camarilla. Payment there gets tricky because regardless of the cost of the action, it -had- to be done, and if it had not been done or if the character tried to charge for it, it would have made them out to be a potential danger to the Camarilla. (Ex. The Sheriff, and city, needs some big time weapons to deal with the werewolves that are literally roaming the streets after the Sabbat pissed them off enough to go hunting and puts out a request for said weapons. Brujah Bob says he can get the weapons. Bob might be able to charge the Sheriff, but in doing so he threatens the entire city which will make him not only a pariah, but maybe unable to cash the boon in later if the Harpy rips him to shreds and similarly followed by the Prince. So he gets the weapons to save his own hide, and the hides of the other kindred. The Prince commends him for his actions, and while Bob may have some chip on his shoulder for having to put out so much, he can slam that extra +2 status around until he feels better about it.) Something that costs little but was valuable might be equivalent to a trivial or minor but get high praise, and something that was expensive but not as needed might only receive minimal praise.

2. While you might ask a Prince to disparage someone, that Prince better already owe you a big favor. Because you are asking them to do something that is way out of their way, even if it is a small thing. Getting the Prince to do anything for you is probably a big deal. If you want to disparage someone, the Harpy is the one to go to. And yes, you can pay the harpy a boon to do so. Though if the harpy is insulted by the offer, or you go overboard with the offer, they might just roast you instead.

On a side note, depending on the weight of the boon, you might be able to get someone else to call the person out on the boards. On a previous character I had a boon I owed called in to absolutely ream someone on the boards and make them out to be a fool. Was I directly affecting the other person's status? No. Was I indirectly affecting the other person's status? Absolutely.

3. On a normal night, that is probably at -least- a minor, just because the sewers are pretty much their domain, home, and everything else. Plus just how dangerous the sewers are by themselves. Trying to run for your life? Depends on how much risk the Nosferatu takes on. Was there a chance they die too? Yeah, that might be argued for a Life boon. Did they just save your life with some effort from them, like hurrying towards a frantic phone call? Might be a major, since they would just bump up the usual cost for using the sewer. But my estimates could be wrong here. Negotiation might also play an important role here.

4. Typically it measures the effort/cost/risk of the seller. You want a single blood bag? Trivial, -maybe- a minor if they really hate you. Asking the Prince for a blood bag? Probably also a trivial, if he/she does it for you. An unacknowledge neonate risks their life and saves yours? Like a Life boon. Prince spares you instead of executing you, yeah you better have offered a Life boon as you begged for you undead rear to stay alive.

If the service or goods provider knows you desperately need what they have, and/or they are the only provider of said thing, then their own feelings might come into play more as well. But as more kindred are in a city, the buyer power increases since there are more options to go to for said good or service.
[Charles Coleman|Toreador | Whip| Camarilla Status: Praised by Council| Toreador Status: --|
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Re: Boons: Going Rates questions

Postby XeKad » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:40 pm

Isaac wrote:Note before beginning, this is from a players perspective of course. I am not an ST, Assistant, or Watchman.

1. Getting praised by a Harpy, Elder, or Prince is usually going to be for something done in service to the city or Camarilla. Payment there gets tricky because regardless of the cost of the action, it -had- to be done, and if it had not been done or if the character tried to charge for it, it would have made them out to be a potential danger to the Camarilla. (Ex. The Sheriff, and city, needs some big time weapons to deal with the werewolves that are literally roaming the streets after the Sabbat pissed them off enough to go hunting and puts out a request for said weapons. Brujah Bob says he can get the weapons. Bob might be able to charge the Sheriff, but in doing so he threatens the entire city which will make him not only a pariah, but maybe unable to cash the boon in later if the Harpy rips him to shreds and similarly followed by the Prince. So he gets the weapons to save his own hide, and the hides of the other kindred. The Prince commends him for his actions, and while Bob may have some chip on his shoulder for having to put out so much, he can slam that extra +2 status around until he feels better about it.) Something that costs little but was valuable might be equivalent to a trivial or minor but get high praise, and something that was expensive but not as needed might only receive minimal praise.



Perhaps this can be applied?
"In the case of things that happen to cause multiple people to get involved to help your char or clan, such as Breach clean-up, you will owe boons to everyone who pitches in. Everyone. Cost varies as above, but usually it will be trivial to minors paid out. From here on out when a scene like this develops, it will be paused for a reasonable amount of time (a few hours at most) if the appropriate responsible people (Primogen or Elder or Offender) can be online to dictate who they want assistance from or to just open the flood gates to everyone."

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15865&hilit=Boons
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Re: Boons: Going Rates questions

Postby CodyK » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:23 pm

Some of these are hard to answer, as the answer is "It depends." But to put the payment to getting Praised by the Harpy, at least, in perspective, I have paid a minor boon in another chronicle for something that I was reasonably certain to be reported as a scandal by the Harpy that could have affected my character to be spun and reported in a manner to affect him the least.

But basically, when you look at the terms of boons, they are not usually defined in terms of how much benefit the one paying them derives (with some notable exceptions), but rather how much effort and inconvenience the receiver or the boon expends. The exception comes in when the person being paid the boon has a level of danger involved, such as the exchange of secrets either in the form of disciplines or knowledge, or even escorting through areas that only they or their clan possess knowledge of how to navigate. The problem is there is not a definitive and clear cut answer, as to some extent the price is variable for most things based off the situation and circumstances involved. However, I would estimate the following:

1) First of all, it will cost more than one if you're going out of your way to pay for praise from the Prince or and Elder as it'll most likely cost a boon, possibly more than Cam Lore 1 to know how and make the arrangements to meet with them regarding the matter, and odds are you will need a kernel of truth in order to be praised. But from the Harpy I'd estimate it's more likely to be a Minor, if you're going to disturb the Prince or an Elder, they are probably not going to do it for less than a Major unless you're offering them something in return for wasting their time.

2) Same as above, but also possibly more dangerous for you, as if you are of lower status than them, it could be perceived as an assault on status, pretty much the most grievous crime for the Camarilla.

3) I will echo Issac above, that it's at the very least a Minor, but could be a Major or even a Life if by doing so they are risking themselves and saving your life. If they are escorting you away from a manhole while you're being chased by werewolves, you should probably be prepared to pay a life boon for instance. If you are trying to investigate a place that's not a city or official Camarilla matter and just wanting to get to it from the sewer for some reason, you're going to be looking at a Minor or Major.

Finally, and this is my experience from multiple games, not just sang, so some of it may not be applicable to sang, though I don't expect it'll be the case, but to some extent the value of the boon depends not just on the effort they will have to expend, the danger they will face, but also whether they are actually willing to do so or if they are going to extort you in the process as part of their fee for even seeing them and whether or not it is something that you are by necessity reliant upon them for the service. Such as my example of the same thing from the Prince or an Elder costing more than just the Harpy, or even the variability of the price of a simple jaunt being lead through the sewer.
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Re: Boons: Going Rates questions

Postby Jamestoo » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:39 pm

Would be grateful for ST input.
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Re: Boons: Going Rates questions

Postby Nik » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:40 pm

There aren't any hard and fast rules on costs like that. You want praising, so ok, what for? Is there an existing narrative? Are you in good standing, positively viewed, and therefore it's easy to support you? Or are you in disgrace? So really it depends entirely on the situation and what it costs the other person to give you what you want. Same holds true in reverse. Who is it? Does it cost them politically to do that? Does that other person have allies/standing that will cause an issue? Is it worth their time and effort? What are you doing for them to make it worth their while?

That's why if getting a gun off someone might be a minor one time, but then it is harder to do next time as they've used some UW influence and it'll lock their stuff for a while so they charge two minors for it. There's also the case that some boons are worth more than others. A trivial from a Prince is worth more than a few minors from a neonate.

As for the Nosferatu... who are they guiding? How far? Why? Is it to save them from something topside? Will it risk someone learning about their navigable system? It doesn't take a lot of effort, but there's still other considerations to determine it. I'd say this one is probably a minor, though if it is a short hop maybe a Trivial. But then you ask yourself the question of why bother if that is the case?

Your last point... it's a bit of both. So all in all, it IS a bit ambiguous, but then you're asking questions that are pretty open ended. Things like learning Lore or Disciplines is a little more set because there are many fewer ramifications to it. But the rest really depends.
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Re: Boons: Going Rates questions

Postby Jamestoo » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:15 pm

Thx.
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